Latter-Rain Doctrine

It is interesting to me that Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival brought charismatic revivalism into the spotlight, which inadvertently put a magnifying glass on Peter Wagner’s apostolic reformation. Now only weeks later, charismatic theology and new apostolic reformation are once again in the spotlight due to connections with Sarah Palin.

It looks to me like it is time for charismatics to pay attention and examine their theological foundations. Is it possible that perhaps God is initiating a type of charismatic reform? I am not the only one suggesting that it is time for an Extreme Charismatic Makeover.

I want to take a closer look at where and how latter-rain doctrine has influenced charismatic christianity.  As I said before, when I started reading about some of this, I wondered about where the heresy line was drawn.  What was the difference between kingdom now and kingdom theology, between dominionism and new creation, between manifest sons of god and incarnation?  Knowing that I was heavily influenced by latter-rain teaching, I wondered how much of my understanding of scripture was wrong.

The following list of latter-rain doctrines is taken from my earlier post describing the charismatic family tree. These are charismatic doctrines that trace their roots directly to the latter-rain movement.  I have included some commentary about each of these ideas.  Obviously this is not a thorough treatment of every aspect, but it will at least give you an overview of the history and influences of latter-rain beliefs on charismatic doctrine.

Typological interpretation of OT scripture

This leads to a lot of error among charismatics. Brother Maynard addresses the gnostic handling of scripture in his post Charismatic Clean-up.  Latter-rain teaching is entirely based upon “prophetic” revelation and typological interpretation of OT scripture. The book Post-Charismatic explains how latter-rain doctrine developed from teachings about the Feast of Tabernacles and the Tabernacle of David.

This type of interpretation of passages in Isaiah, Joel, and Revelation, in particular, is the basis of the doctrine of restorationism and end-time philosophies of dominion such as Joel’s Army. While typology can be interesting, it is not a solid foundation upon which to form doctrine and can lead to aberrant beliefs.

Laying on of hands (impartation)

Obviously we understand the benefits of laying hands on people for prayer, blessing, and healing. The recent Lakeland situation revealed error in charismatic mentalities about impartation and the transfer of the “anointing.” There can be a form of idolatry in revivalism when impartation is pursued from special places or special people and a lack of understanding about the indwelling presence of God and operation of the Spirit in the life of every believer.

Personal prophecy emphasizing gifts and ministry

The latter-rain movement was the original prophetic movement and a precursor to the prophetic movement of the 1980’s.  The most important thing that the prophetic movement restored to the church is the understanding that it is possible and necessary for the individual believer to hear and know the voice of God. I have seen both the blessings and benefits of personal prophecy and the abuses and extremes. There is much that could be written on this topic. Some of my thoughts about it are in this article written by Brother Maynard.

Latter Rain

Latter rain teaching broke away from dispensationalism (rapture theology). Views on eschatology vary greatly among charismatic believers. Many pentecostals were dispensationalists and considered the denial of the rapture to be heresy (and still do).  Among charismatics, there is also a mishmash of teachings about the Second Coming, the millenium, the tribulation, the role of Israel, and other endtime events. Much of the prophetic language and mentality comes from latter rain ideas, yet it is often mixed with other doctrines.

Latter rain specifically refers to an endtime outpouring of supernatural power on a select group of believers.  The essence of latter-rain doctrine is this:

It is believed that the latter rain move of the spirit will cause the church to be victorious resulting in the Second Coming of Christ.

The remaining doctrines we will discuss are elements of this central belief.

Restorationism

The belief that the doctrines of Christ (Heb.6:1-2) and the five-fold ministry (Eph.4:11) were lost during the Dark Ages and are now being restored to the church. The restoration of the doctrines of Christ is used to support the eschatological framework just discussed. There is believed to be a progression of events that will lead to the Second Coming of Christ. The restoration of five-fold ministry is an important aspect of that progression.

Five-fold ministry

It is believed that the “true church” will develop under the leadership of newly-restored apostles and prophets. This latter-rain doctrine is the reason that the prophetic movement and the new apostolic reformation exist today.  They are the result and ongoing expression of this teaching in the charismatic church.  The people involved are convinced that their role as apostles is vital in the development of the church and fulfillment of its purpose.  I have already said plenty about apostolic reformation here and here.

Manifest Sons of God

Also referred to as Joel’s Army, the Elijah or Joshua generation, etc. Many charismatics believe they are now in training as God’s end-time army and are being made ready for coming events. Most have been around this type of militant language for describing spiritual warfare, prayer, and worship.  Latter-Rain teachings promise a second outpouring to empower this group to be victorious in overthrowing the powers of darkness.

The more extreme version of this teaching is that there is a select remnant, a kind of super-breed, who will incarnate Christ to the degree that they will become perfect.  Achieving this degree of perfection is what will allow for the return of Christ.

Conclusion

I hope that gives you a bit of an idea of how prevalent these ideas are within normal charismatic christianity and enough information to make your own determination about the accuracy of various beliefs.

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24 thoughts on “Latter-Rain Doctrine

  1. Extreme Charismatic Makeover & Charismatic Clean-up

    [sigh]

    Yes. Let’s hope the surge in interest regarding the Bentley/Lakeland/GodTV happenings & how they bring focus to the Republican VP nominee will be the start of a greater scrutiny from all sectors. I do believe in spite of all the hype/hoopla/hysteria from both sides of the aisle that the genuine workings of God are not hindered one iota. If this is a process of removing more dross from the crucible of charismatic church expression then we will all be better for it. I do hope this is the result…

  2. …additional thought:

    Can we reclaim the insular teaching of “Restorationism” with a new emerging one?

    I vote for: ‘restorativism’ (lower case ‘r’ intentional…)

    A restorative realization of each believer’s position in Christ sans all the aritificial posturing & pedestal standing & heirarchal nonsense we have erected out of the ‘5-fold ministry’ model…

    A restorative move of refreshing in the charismatic camps that will be a true release of God’s breath/wind upon His people of all faith traditions.

    I do want something truly restorative to come of all this…

  3. joseph,
    The artificial construct of restorationism serves to create artificial structure, an air of elitism, and a false sense of certainty regarding specific future events.

    I believe the general concept is one of increasing revelation – that individuals and the church corporately continue to grow in our wisdom and understanding of God. Our relationship with Him will always include times of refreshing, rest, and renewal and should result in restoration, reconciliation, and redemption. So many great R words!

    I would vote for the term revelationalism, a la Eph. 1:17-19 – although it would be wide open for gnostic abuse.

    “I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe.”

  4. …yeah…revelationalism…

    catchy. and you’re ‘r’ight: so many ‘r’ich ‘R’ words that have such deep meaning for the saints in the english language. i find that a curious observation…

  5. About your statement regarding idolatry in the section about laying on hands, I have seen it played out by a number of folks. It seems that it can be treated like “magic”….”if only this person lays on hands, or in this place”, etc. I have seen an effect like it in sacramental churches too in regards to the bread and wine being almost magical and also the anointing with oil. I come from a sacramental background but with charismatic leanings and when I pray with someone who wishes to be anointed with oil for healing, I will usually say to them that we are doing this in accordance with scripture (and read it) and that this is not some sort of magic potion or something.

  6. inheritor,
    I believe it is more than almost magical in sacramental churches. My understanding is that it is considered a supernatural reality (transubstantiation?). Interesting point about not viewing anointing oil as a magic potion.

    A little off topic – this summer at a family reunion my aunts were talking about a lady who brought a vial of water from the Jordan River to be used during her baptism in a local lake. One of the aunts said, “Well, why didn’t she just get baptized in the Jordan while she was there? That would have been better.”

    I bit my tongue to keep from asking how it would have been better. Would she have been more dead to sin, more alive in Christ, more baptized with more newness of life? Anyway, your comment reminded me how we sometimes attribute magical qualities to things that seem spiritual or religious.

    Tom,
    I googled it. It is posted on flickr by elphster. It says the church is on Western Avenue in Southern LA.

  7. With regard to the apostolic traditions; RCC & EO, there is the belief that a hands on participation is the connection of a real spiritual dynamic now tangible in our physical existence.

    Many believers of all stripes accept the spiritual reality apart from a physical manifestation. The rich tradition of Holy Communion/Eucharist only one of the more obvious sacramental expressions that is meant to represent more than just the ritual/elements.

    This is an intriguing consideration really. To actually have ‘faith’ in a worship form that does not result in what any of us would consider a miraculous expression. Yet we all would agree that the most miraculous of spiritual transformation cannot be quantified or measured empirically.

    I think there are indeed physical places or acts/rituals that can be a focal point of faith for those that believe it is more than just the physical parts that we can perceive. I may not want to believe that Toronto is a ‘spout where the glory comes out’ but many did make that pilgrimage there in search of a touch from God however it is they wished to believe it.

    I was never a Toronto Blessing pilgrim or one to Lourdes or Fatima, but there are some dear saints that have experienced a tangible spiritual awareness while touring the Holy Land. Maybe God is not more concentrated there in a rational theological sense, but those places can be the focal point of an individuals faith that does exceed the geographical real estate it is identified with.

    I am not one to feel any urge to go to so-and-so local or seek this individual to lay hands on me nor am I one that is convinced the religious rituals of the apostolic faith traditions are only effective because of the specific methodology they wish to preserve & practice. I am not anti-tradition in that sense, but there must be more than just going through the motions that only represent a spiritual reality vs. being something that can be experienced at a deeper spiritual reality. I think each individual must derive an essence of the divine in the daily routines of the day even if they include what is categorized as religious practice/discipline/ritual.

    Christian superstition is not to be confused with faithful practice or even traditional rituals. But we can make them out to be something more than the spiritual component they represent by building up the argument that simply going through the motions is somehow efficacious no matter what the condition of the heart is of those that do them…

  8. Transubstantiation is a Roman Catholic view. The bread and wine become body and blood (with more explanation as to why we still see bread and wine).
    Consubstantiation is a more Lutheran view. Body and blood (presence and life) are received “with, in and under” the earthly forms of bread and wine. In which case it is a mystery as to how this occurs but it does so according to Christ’s word.

  9. I like Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s assessment of what we do too much of. He says we ask the wrong questions. We ask “What, when, how, etc.” He says the question is “Who?”. I think this is a more unifying question. In whom are we baptized? Who is present in Communion? Who is the head of the church? And like little children in Sunday school class we should answer ever time….Jesus!

  10. Holy Laughter, holy bark, holy drunkard and etc. are not found in the book of Acts during the Pentecost. Some Charismatic churches might use the word, leap, laugh, drunkard and etc. from the Old and New Testaments to support these movements. However, bear in mind that the word, leap, laugh, drunkard and etc. are mentioned instead of the full phrase of holy laughter, holy bark and etc. What if these practices are not from the work of the Holy Spirit, the insisting that these practices are from the work of Holy Spirit has caused one to abuse the name of the Holy Spirit and it would have grieved the Holy Spirit to accept the wrong saying that these are the work of them. However, the Holy Spirit does not do it. One has indeed blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by abusing the name of the Holy Spirit despite he does not do it. The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgivable according to the New Testament.

  11. Charismatic people might argue that love and the so-called, gift, could exist side by side in Charismatic churches. They might argue that Charismatic people have more love than non-Charismatic people since their love extends even to every household since they exercise miraculous healings publicly so as many people could be healed from their illnesses. Not only that, they could even take that opportunity to preach to non-Christians through rallies. They could even condemn non-Charismatic churches since they are not so actively involved in preaching as compared to Charismatic churches.

    John Calvin spoke in tongues. Acts 2:8-10, “And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, Medes….” From the above verses, we know that tongues are indeed languages and/or dialects. Do you know whether John Calvin spoke in foreign languages and/or dialects? If you could not prove whether he spoke in languages and/or dialects, we could not ascertain whether John Calvin was speaking in tongues or he just speaks nonsensical words. Bear in mind, tongues in the book of Acts are languages/dialects. If a person speaks not in foreign languages/dialects, he simply speaks garbage and not in tongues.

    1 Corinthians 14;21, “in the law it is written, ‘With (men of) other tongues and other lips will I speak with this people and yet for all that will they not hear me’, saith the Lord.” As the phrase, other tongues, is mentioned in 1 Corinth 14:21 with the phrase, I speak with this people, it implies that tongues are definitely languages and/or dialects or else how God could converse with us then.

    1 Corinth 14:2, “for that speaketh in an (unknown) tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God, for no man understandeth (him)…”. For 1 Corinth 14:4, “He that speaketh in an (unknown) tongue edifieth himself…”. For instance, if tongues are not languages and/or dialects and it cannot be understood by the speaker, how the tongues could edify the speaker himself since 1 Corinth 14:4 mentions that tongues have to edify the speaker.

    1 Corinth 14:10, “There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them (is) without significant.” As the phrase, many kind of voices, is mentioned in 1 Corinth 14:10 with the phrase, the world, it definitely refers to languages and/or dialects in the world instead of outside the world, ie. alien language. McArthur claimed to have other tongues that could not be understood by human beings are not biblical.

    What if the so-called, tongues, in contemporary Charismatic churches are not from the work of the Holy Spirit, the comment that their tongues are from God or the Holy Spirit or Jesus Christ would cause one to abuse the name of them and it in turn blasphemes any one of them.

    1 Corinth 14;14, “For if I pray in an (unknown) tongue pray that he may interpret”. The above verse demands a tongue spoker to pray for his understanding of tongues. 1 Corinth 14;37, “If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord”. The phrase, the things that I write to you, in 1 Corinth 14:37 is in present tense and it implies that the words that Paul just delivered for his message to the Church of Corinthians is indeed God’s commandment and this includes 1 Corinth 14:14.

    1 Corinth 14:15, “What is it then? I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with understanding also; I will sing with Spirit, and I will sing with understanding also.” For instance, the speaker could not understand the tongue, how could they sing and pray with understanding and this contradicts 1 Corinth 14:15.

  12. Matthew 12:31-32, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the BLASPHEMY AGAINST the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speak against a word the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever SPEAK AGAINST the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.” As the phrase, speak against the Holy Spirit, is mentioned in Matthew 12:31-32 with the phrase, blasphemy against the Spirit, it implies that a person blasphemes against the Holy Spirit even if he speaks against the Holy Spirit. The same for abusing the name of the Holy Spirit in which it might have grieved the Holy Spirit to accept the false saying what if the works are not from the Holy Spirit. The word, forgiven, is mentioned in Matthew 12:31-32 with the phrase, every sin & blasphemy, it implies that all blasphemies are to be considered as sin or else why we should need God’s forgiveness for the blasphemies. The same in abusing God’s or Jesus’ name to support their miracles are from God or Jesus respectively and these are the acts of blasphemies to be considered as sins too.

  13. DEFINITION OF BLASPHEMY IN HEBREWS/GREEK

    blas’-fe-mi (blaphemia) in classical Greek and Hebrews means primarily ‘defamation’ or ‘evil-speaking’in general; ‘a word of evil omen’, hence, ‘impious, and irreverent speech against God’. The above is the extract pertaining to the meaning of blasphemy in Greek. Consider carefully about holy bark, holy laugher and etc. For instance, if these are not the work of Holy Spirit, the abusing the name of Holy Spirit by saying that these are the work of Holy Spirit is indeed delivery of irreverent speech against the Holy Spirit. For instance, if these are not the work of the Holy Spirit, the insisting that these should be directed from the work of the Holy Spirit might have abused the name of the Holy Spirit and caused defamation of its name and one might have in turn grieved the Holy Spirit since these might not be the work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit might be ended up to bear the name for the doer of holy bark, holy laugher and etc. What if it has grieved the Holy Spirit by insisting that these are the work of the Holy Spirit, our ignorance has ultimately caused the ultimate abusing and/or blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

    HEALINGS IN CONTEMPORARY CHARISMATIC CHURCHES

    In miraculous healings among Charismatic churches today, we could easily spot out that many sick will fall down before the healers lay hands on them. However, many sick would remain unhealed after the rally despite they did fall down before the healers, i.e. Pastors that perform miraculous healings. God is definitely powerful and can heal all kinds of sicknesses. However, there is a deficiency in the healings in contemporary Charismatic world. What if the wonders are not the work of the Holy Spirit, the commenting to abuse the name of the Holy Spirit that it is he that does the work might have grieved the Holy Spirit in case if these are not the work of the Holy Spirit and it ends up that one has abused the name of the Holy Spirit and has ultimately blasphemed against the Holy Spirit.

    ALL BLASPHEMIES WHETHER TOWARDS THE HOLY SPIRIT OR GOD OR JESUS CHRIST ARE TO BE CONSIDERED AS SINS

    Matthew 12:31-32, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the BLASPHEMY AGAINST the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speak against a word the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever SPEAK AGAINST the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.” As the phrase, speak against the Holy Spirit, is mentioned in Matthew 12:31-32 with the phrase, blasphemy against the Spirit, it implies that a person blasphemes against the Holy Spirit even if he speaks against the Holy Spirit. The same for abusing the name of the Holy Spirit in which it might have grieved the Holy Spirit to accept the false saying what if the works are not from the Holy Spirit. The word, forgiven, is mentioned in Matthew 12:31-32 with the phrase, every sin & blasphemy, it implies that all blasphemies are to be considered as sin or else why we should need God’s forgiveness for the blasphemies. The same in abusing God’s or Jesus’ name to support their miracles are from God or Jesus respectively and these are the acts of blasphemies to be considered as sins too.

    THE  WELL-KNOWN VERSES IN MATTHEW 7:21-23

    Matthew 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practise lawlessness!”
    What are the elements could be found in these verses above? There are:
    1) They believe in Jesus Christ since Matthew 7:22, “(mentions that) Many will say to me..’LORD, LORD”. These people must have believed in Jesus Christ or else how they could call Jesus Christ to be their Lord as mentioned above then.
    2) These people could use Jesus’ name to perform miracles since Matthew 7:22, “(mentions that) Many…have..prophesied…in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name?”
    3) Will they be accepted by Jesus Christ? Matthew 7:23, “…I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me”.

    THE PRIDE AMONG CONTEMPORARY CHURCHES FOR THEIR NON-REPENTANCE

    This is my general discovery upon Charismatic churches: Some Charismatic churches might not repent in order to do away their so-called, gift, in the churches due to they feel thieir reputations are most precious than the truth of the Bible and that causes them to persist in the practice. However, bear in mind that the insisting the so-called, gift, in their churches to be the work of the Holy Spirit might cause them to abuse the name of the Holy Spirit and that causes them ultimately to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit what if the miracles are not from the work the Holy Spirit. The act of insisting to defend their reputation more important than the truth of the Bible has indeed violated the great commandment of the Lord. For Matthew 22:37, “(mentions that) Jesus said to him, ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.” The act of having a high preference for their reputations rather that upholding the truth of the Bible implies that his love towards his own reputation is more significance than his love towards God.  For Matthew 22:37 has commanded us to put our love to God first instead of that has to be in replacement of our reputation.

  14. 1) The following are the proves that angels could perform miracles healing and there are falling angels in the Scripture to be against God too:

    John 5:3-4, “In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.”

    2) The following are the proves that Angels could perform marvellous wonders:

    Luke 1:7, “And they had no child, because that Elizabeth was barren and they both were now well stricken in years.” Luke 1:13, “but the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for their prayer is heard; and they wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John”. Luke 1:18, “And Zacharias said unto the angel, ‘Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my life well stricken in years.” Luke 1:19, “And THE ANGEL ANSWERING UNTO HIM, I AM GRABRIEL…” Luke 1:20, “AND BEHOLD, THOU SHALL BE DUMB, AND NOT ABLE TO SPEAK, UNTIL THE DAY THAT THESE THINGS SHALL BE PERFORMED, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.” Luke 1:22, “And when he came out, HE COULD NOT SPEAK UNTO THEM”.

    Matthews 28:1-2, “Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Many Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. And, behold, THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE, FOR AN ANGEL OF THE LORD DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN, AND ROLLED BACK THE STONE OF THE DOOR, and sat it.”

    Acts 12:23, “Then immediately an angel of the Lord struck him, because he did not give glory to God. And he was eaten by worms and died.”

    3) Angels could appear in somebody’s dream:

    Matthews 2:19, “…an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph…”; Matthew 1:20, “…an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream…”

    As angels could perform wonders, are there any strongest proves to show that those wonders in contemporary Charismatic Churches are from God? If someone in contemporary Charismatic Church could prove it, we have to accept it. However, if nobody could prove whether the existence of wonder in contemporary Charismatic Churches is from God or the Holy Spirit or Angels, there is a danger that one would comment that certain wonders are from God or from the Holy Spirit or from Jesus Christ and, in case if they are not and it would turn up that we have forced God or Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit to bear the name of doer and indirectly we have abused the name of Jesus Christ or God or the Holy Spirit and this causes us to speak against Jesus Christ or God or the Holy Spirit indirectly.

    Could contemporary Charismatic Church claim that the miracles and wonder they perform in the name of Jesus Christ, is accompanied by correct teaching (in accordance with God’s Word) and righteous living?

    A good Christian performs a wonder through the name of Jesus Christ in the Church. Many audiences would claim that this be the work of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit. As fallen angels could perform wonders, i.e. Buddhists could perform wonders as it is listed in the Internet too. What if the wonders in contemporary Charismatic churches are not from God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit, the surrounding audience that claims to be the work of the Holy Spirit/God/Jesus Christ, would have indirectly abused the name of each of them even though they might not be the one to do it and it indirectly causes the defamation of the name of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit and they might have grieved as a result of the whole church speaking against them since they might not do it. The abusing of the name of Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit/God would cause the audience to commit continual sins as when and they address these be the work of God.

    Can a Christian or a Catholics claim that he has followed the correct teaching and righteous living when day by day and month by month and year by year seeing people keep on claiming the wonders in contemporary Charismatic Churches to be the work of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit without telling them the danger that they would have sinned against God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit what if the so-called, wonders, might not be their work then?

    For holy bark, you could see people running around the churches crazily to bark here and there.

    For Holy laughter, you could see people laugh without stopping.

    For manifestation of the Spirit, you see people roll from one place to another without knowing what he/she has done after performing.

    All these are not mentioned in the book of Acts.

    A number of people in the church mention that they receive revelation from God through words of knowledge, prophecy, tongues speaking, words of wisdom. Many prophets arose previously claimed that year 2000 and 1987 were the end of the world. However, the year before year 2000 and 1987, none of these people that claim to receive so-called, special gifts of the Holy Spirit, say that these years 2000 and 1987 are not the end of the world. If it is the work of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit should have informed all these people to correct their mistakes.

  15. LUKE 9:49-50 ABOUT THOSE THAT DO NOT FOLLOW JESUS BUT COULD PERFORM WONDERS IN JESUS’ NAME

    Luke 9:49, 50 (TCNT), “Hereupon John said: “Sir, we saw a man driving out demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he does not follow you with us.” “None of you must prevent him,” Jesus said to John; “he who is not against you is for you.”

    Were these people that were mentioned in Luke 9:49-50 to be the disciples of Jesus since it is mentioned that they did not follow Jesus?

    The following are the verses to prove that God’s people would surely follow Jesus:

    John 10:27, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

    John 10:3, “To him the porter openeth, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calleth his own sheep by nam, and leadeth them out”.

    From the above verses, it is obvious that the sheep will surely follow the shepherd, Jesus.

    As the phrase, he is not against you is for you, is mentioned in Luke 9:49 instead of the phrase, he is not against you is for me Jesus, it does not show that all these people that could use Jesus to perform miracles were for Jesus but for us, disciples, especially Jesus had mentioned clearly in John 10:27 and 10:3 that Christians would surely follow Jesus. The possible interpetation for Luk 9:49 for him to mention that they were for us that it might be that they could assist us in bringing outsiders to the attention of Jesus Christ for our evangelism. However, they are not for Jesus since they do not follow Jesus since they would definitely follow Jesus if they are for Jesus.

    Indeed the people as mentioned in Luke 9:49-50 that could perform wonders in Jesus’s name were not God’s people or else Jesus should have included these people ont top of the twelve disciples. Or in other words, if these people that could perform wonders in Jesus’ name were God’s people, there would be more that twelve disciples instead of remaining to be twelve all the time during Jesus’ mission and it proves the fact that Jesus’ name could be abused to perform miracles. Or in other words, despite these people as mentioned in Luke 9:49-50 were not following Jesus and were not the disciples of Jesus, they could use Jesus’ name to perform wonders.

    CASTING OUT DEMONS MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY CAUSE ONE TO HAVE DISTURBED BY DEMONS AS MENTIONED IN ACTS 19:13-16:

    Matthew 17:15-16, “Lord have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.” Matthew 17:18-19, “And Jesus rebuked the devil and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, ‘Why could not we cast him out?’ ” Matthew 17:21, “Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.” From these verses, it is obvious that the failure in casting out demons might not necessarily cause one to be disturbed by demons as that is mentioned in Luke 9:49-50.

    PROOF THAT ANGELS COULD PERFORM MIRACULOUS HEALING AND THERE ARE FALLEN ANGELS TOO:

    John 5:3-4, “In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.””

    From John 5:3-4, it shows that angels could heal various kinds of illnesses whether they are blinded, halt and withered. As angels could perform miraculous healings and there are so-called, fallen angels, it is irrational to jump into conclusion that certain illnesses be healed to be the work of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit since some wonders might be the work of angels and/or fallen angels.

    One might have quoted Luke 9:49-50 well that nobody should stop those people that perform miracles in Jesus’ name. However, he should meditate Matthew 7:22-23 carefully again that the so-called people to use Jesus’ name to perform wonders might be rejected by the Lord. For instance, if these people that are mentioned in Matthew 7:22-23 to use Jesus’ name to perform wonders are the work of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit, there should not be any strong ground for Jesus to reject them. However, Jesus will reject them despite they do perform wonders in Jesus’ name and there is a query the so-called wonders that they perform are from God. The following are the extracts:

    Matthew 7:22-23, “Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practise lawlessness!’

  16. Charismatic people say that they believe in Jesus Christ. However, they depend mostly on their emotions; their sights of miracles; and whatever they could visualize from their sights. Whenever they feel and see the existence of some forms of power and they say that there is God. When they could not see any miracles or wonders or their emotions are down, they say that God is not with them. They claim that they receive the Holy Spirit due to they say that they feel something passing through their bodies. All in all they claim that they are saved and yet all these are done through feelings. Their salvations are in doubt and they might not be saved since salvation is through faith and not feeling. What good does it bring about if the number of Charismatic churches has been expanding! Many are non-Christians and a few are true Christians. Now the underlying problem is we, the true Church, must be strengthened in Biblical knowledge and not to be affected by false teachings.

    Sad to say they are blinded by evil forces. No doubt they might be rejected by the Lord as mentioned in Matthew 7:22-23 for their foolishness of hearts.

  17. Contemporary Charismatic Churches support pre-millennium, mid-millennium, post-millennium and etc. However, the so-called, manifestation of the Holy Spirit in contemporary Charismatic Churches does not stop them to support these theories in the past and there is a query whether the so-called, manifestation of the Holy Spirit in contemporary Charismatic Churches is from God.

    The following is the reason about my comment:

    Rev 22:18-19, “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of this prophecy of book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

    As the phrase, shall add, is mentioned in Rev 22:18-19 with the phrase, God shall add unto him the plagues, it implies that God demands us, Christians, not to add any words into the book of Revelation. As the phrase, shall take away from…this prophecy, is mentioned in Rev 22:18-19 with the phrase, shall take away his part out of the book of life, it implies that God forbids Christians to remove anything from the book of Revelation.

    The interpretation of the Revelation that Jesus would come in Rev chapter 6 before the tribulation; or Jesus would come in Rev 20 after tribulation; and/or etc., implies that one has added words into the book of Revelation and that should be forbidden as mentioned in Rev 22:18-19. What if Jesus would come at some part of Revelation instead of in Rev 6, those Christians that insist he would come in Rev 6 has added words into God’s mouth that Jesus would come in Rev 6 even though Rev 6 does not mention it. The worse is some would link up the Book of Daniel and/or any other books to the book of Revelation. What if the actual interpretation of God for the revelation is not like this, these Christians have acted contradictorily to Rev 22:18-19 to add words into God’s mouth that God’s prophecy should be so but indeed God does not mean it.

    The same is for those that interpets Rev 13, the 666 to be the anti-christ. Nothing is mentioned in Rev 13 that 666 is for anti-christ and yet one links the word, anti-christ in 1 John 1 to be the one in Rev 13. What if God’s interpretation for 666 in Rev 13 not to be for anti-christ, we, Christians, simply force God to accept the so-called, 666, in Rev 13 to be anti-christ then.

    To my personal opninion, we, Christians, must leave the book of Revelation not to be interpreted so as we would not violate Rev 22:18-19. The reason is we, Christians, would have added words to God’s mouth in case if the book of Revelation, to God’s interpretation is another way instead of following our own interpretation.

  18. My reasoning is simply that for instance, if the so-called, tongues speaking, the gift of prophecy, the gift of Word of Knowledge, the gift of wisdom, and etc., in contemporary Charismatic Churches are from God, they would have warned all Christians among their Churches not to interpret the book of prophecy especially the book of Revelation.

    They refer Rev 6 and 8:1-2 to be the first half of tribulation; and the Great Tribulation to be for Rev 8; 9, 11:15 as well as Rev 15:16. Pre-tribulation supports that Christians will be raptured before Rev 6 since they believe that Christians would not go through tribulation; Post-tribulation supports that Chrstians would be raptured after Rev 16 and perhaps in Rev 20; mid-tribulation assumes that Christians would be raptured in the middle of the book of Rev. All these interpretations have indeed abused the book of Revelation in which Rev 22:18-19 command us not to add words in the book of Prophecy and yet the so-called, manifestation of the Holy Spirit in contemporary Charismatic Churches, should have warned Christians not to violate the book of Revelation on the condition if their so-called, gifts, are from God. As mentioned in the Scripture, the Holy Spirit will guide us for the truth of the Scripture and yet the so-called, gifts, in current world do not correct the mistakes in interpreting the book of Revelation, there is a question whether the so-called, gifts, in contemporary Charismatic Churches are from God. What if in God’s interpretation that Christians would be raptured in Rev 6 instead of Rev 20, our insisting the support that God would be raptured in Rev 6 would have added words into God’s mouth for the comment that Christians would be raptured at that time even though Rev 6 does not mention Christians would be raptured at that time. The same are for mid- and post-tribulation too. They even relate Rev 12:3, 13 to be the rise of Antichrist. Nothing is mentioned in the book of Rev 12:3, 13 that the so-called, 666, is the antichrist and yet one has related the word, antichrist, in 1 John 1 to be that is mentioned in Rev 12:3, 13. What if God’s interpretation for Rev 12:3, 13 not to be an antichrist instead of some other thing, the insisting that Rev 12:3, 13 have undoubtedly added words into God’s mouth that Rev 12:3, 13 were the antichrist.

    Rev 22:18-19, “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of this prophecy of book…” As the phrase, this prophecy of book, in Rev 22:18-19 is in singular tense, it implies a single book instead of other books and it certainly refers to the book of Revelation undoubtedly.

    Some might relate Daniel 2:42-44 for the rise of the antichrist and that would occur during the tribulation and that falls within Rev 6-16. The word, antichrist, is not spelt out clearly in the book of Revelation. The insisting that antichrist would come during Rev 6-16 has undoubtedly added words into God’s mouth what if God’s interpretation of the prophecy is not in this way but in other alternative way.

    For instance, if one relates Rev 22:18-19 to be in broader term and this incudes other prophecy in the Bible too. To interpret Daniel 2:42-44 to be the rise of antichrist would certainly act against Rev 22:18-19 since one has added words into Daniel 2:42-44 especially the word, antichrist, is not mentioned in Daniel 2:42-44. One has simply related the word, antichrist, from 1 John 1 to Daniel 2:42-44. What if God’s interpretation of Daniel 2:42-44 not to be antichrist, one has added words into God’s mouth to force him to accept this interpretation.

  19. Jonathan,
    I’m not sure why you are doing this, but it is poor blog etiquette. Feel free to leave one comment with a link to your blog and move all of this over there. I will be deleting it tomorrow.

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