Don’t miss National Back to Church Sunday!
(ht David Fitch, Rick Meigs)
“Back to Church Sunday” is aimed at reaching the unchurched and dechurched — people who used to go to church, but don’t any more. The campaign is based on a simple idea. If you ask unchurched people to come with you to church–mostly likely they’ll say yes. Many dechurched people are a simple re-invitation away.
There are probably people and churches for whom this is effective. If so, great!
The failure to acknowledge or address the issues behind declining attendance leaves the impression that this campaign is either oblivious or indifferent to the real attitudes of the unchurched and dechurched.
If you are churched, why aren’t you inviting more people to church?
If you are unchurched, are you interested in attending with a friend?
If you are dechurched, will this strategy reach you? Why or why not?
whoa, whoa, whoa now…call up that ‘good’ friend that stopped going to church & you don’t know why they quit going in the first place? or call up that somewhat familiar acquaintance you don’t interact with regularly & now invite them to church? invite them to church??? and that is going to do what now? park their carcass in a pew & magically transform them into a Christian? i would not simply invite someone i know to a church service first. i would invite them to our Friday nite Village gathering where we eat a meal, share about our lives, laugh, love on each other & maybe share some scripture then pray for the needs of those in attendance. or include them in one of many BBQs or potlucks or neighborhood help projects we do. engage with real people in real people settings, not the artificial preacher-only-talks type that can be more show than substance. Lord have mercy…
I suppose I would fall into the camp of ‘de-churched’, though still very much a Jesus follower. And as you suggested, I have no desire to go back because the issues that caused me to leave remain the same.
No thanks. :)
I guess I fall under the “dechurched” category.
Recently, I asked a certain young gentleman when he plans on asking me to go to church with him. He was quite surprised by the question, given my spiritual leanings. However, I explained to him that his church is clearly a rather important part of his life, and that means that it’s something I’d like to experience in order to understand better. (I will admit, however, that so far, what little I’ve seen and heard of his church through his experiences has not left me with a good impression.) And there’s also just the fact hey, it’s an hour and a half I get to spend with this young gentleman.
There have been a number of friends who have invited me to go to church with them, and I’ve accepted many of those invitations for various reasons. Most often, it’s to support someone I care about. But to be honest, I’m not interested in becoming one of the “churched,” and I doubt I’d accept an invitation to go to church just for the sake of going to church. I certainly wouldn’t accept it from someone I didn’t have an established friendship with.
And that gets to the real issue with the whole thing. It’s all about church. Even referring to people as “unchurched” and “dechurched” makes it clear it’s all about church and has very little to do with the people. There’s this underlying assumption that they don’t have “church” and they need it. To be frank, those of who don’t attend church are probably going to disagree with that assumption. Because quite frankly, if I felt like I needed church, I’d be going to church already.
I have been very happily de-churched. To answer your question – not a chance! I also found the underlying assumptions of the video a bit ridiculous. It strikes me as genuine, sincere, and completely clueless.
I honestly fail to see the value in this kind of marketing.
I think the things they state are true, but so what?
As Jarred pointed out, it’s about the “church”. This is purely manipulation to make people who are dedicated to the machine to save the machine, because enough people are now thinking for themselves that this kind of mind control is becoming obsolete.
I think there are organizations who do some great things, But I think especially in the West our focus is much more on Christian culture and it seems like the Christians are largely oblivious to the real people they are trying to bring under the same mind control they are victim to.
Oh I don’t mean to always sound so negative. I just think this video paints a pretty clear picture as to what is wrong with Christian culture and their attitudes about expanding God’s Kingdom.
Recently I did attend a church service because I was asked, by a young man that I work with whom I have a lot of respect for. I’m not sure that even he gets why I went with him. I hope that some time in the near future I can have a conversation about how my reason for attending wasn’t because I feel I am lacking church attendance or being under the preaching of the gospel, or what ever other reason we are supposed to attend regularly for. But I also don’t want to offend him, Because he is my friend. I would so much rather just hang out with him instead of listening to some one preach about our obligations to keep this thing chugging along.
IMO, this video has nothing to do with God’s Kingdom at all, it’s all about the salvation of the machine.
Peace
oh I am also De-churched I guess and ,seriously there is no way this kind of thing can create any kind of desire to attend. It really only makes me more conscious of the way I used to talk to people and how my focus was on the gathering and belonging to the Christian club.
I’m not saying it’s all bad, but they can have the club.
The other day I was visiting with a friend who is a leader in the local semi-mega church when a mutual friend’s absence from that church came up in the conversation.
Has he called her to ask why she hasn’t been there in several months? No
Has he checked in on her to see how some big life changes are affecting her family? No
Has he visited with her out of genuine concern about some noticable changes in her behavior? No
Apparently, he is concerned about her and her family because of their absence. So, what is his assessment about why she is not in his church? Get ready…….she is just interested in what SHE WANTS.
Oh right. I forgot. church = good; the unchurched and dechurched = lost and selfish.
Good grief. I have heard that (and unfortunately said that) about so many who have stopped going to a church. My husband countered with, “Well, if X Church isn’t a good fit, then maybe she shouldn’t go.”
He didn’t want to hear that and insinuated several more times that she is just wanting her needs met and being selfish.
What’s even more interesting is that he and his wife know that my husband and I don’t go to a church (and haven’t for quite a while), and yet he said that about someone who doesn’t go to a church to someone who doesn’t go to a church.
I can totally identify with a lot of what you said. I was still living with my parents when I quit going to church. My mother would occasionally run into some of the people from the church (my parents changed churches a few years prior to my leaving the church we used to all attend together) while shopping or running other errands around town. She would come home on those occasions and tell me “Oh, I ran into so-and-so and they said that they miss you.”
After about six months of this, I turned to my mother and said, “They know where I live. They know how to get in touch with me. Why aren’t they tracking me down to tell me that they miss me in person?”
Sorry, I just realized that I didn’t answer your questions. Anyway, as I said, I am, according to the marketing definitions, one of the dechurched (though that definition is a little offensive and carries a connotation similar to as if I’ve been delimbed or dethroned or otherwise cut off).
Anyway this strategy will definitely not work with me because it doesn’t even vaguely acknowledge that I had valid reasons for leaving and staying away and seems to assume that I’m just waiting with baited breath, hoping and praying that one of the churched will invite me to sit beside them this Sunday.
I’m not, and I still love Jesus.
I’m about half de-churched (is the glass half full or half empty)?
If you are churched, why aren’t you inviting more people to church? When I discovered I couldn’t “believe in the product” that the church was delivering (which is different than believing in The Christ), I stopped being motivated to invite people… In my experience, the 82% figure for asking the unchurched is quite high. In my present state, this video does nothing to make me want to ask the unchurched/de-churched… Why? From the first seconds, I found it manipulative, using guilt.
If you are dechurched, will this strategy reach you? Why or why not? Maybe. I’d look into the church before I said yes, however.
i must qualify my own journey of sorts. yes, i was happily ‘de-churched’ for many years. took up golf while i insisted my 3 boys continue attending their Sunday Youth Group activities. my journey more a ‘detox’ process though, not an abandonment of church life+participation. now to be honest there are very few churches i would feel comfortable visiting. since i did divest myself of much of the useless ‘churchy’ baggage that accummulated from my various faith expression attendance, i am not willing to deal with it even as a polite gesture. i suppose i am far less tolerant of what passes off as a church service whether it be richly liturgical or far less formal. been there. done that. got the t-shirt, baptismal certificates, membership certificates & guilt trips sufficient to skew my concept of just who this God is i still am drawn to…
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Trying to inform church and denominational leaders and other Christians that people have left church for valid reasons is a hard sell. It is widely felt that people who leave church must be ‘backsliding’ or just too busy for the Lord. People in the church find it hard to grasp that there are numerous reasons why people have faced the inevitable decision that they need to leave the institutional church.
I work hard at trying to help church leaders and congregants who are interested to understand some of the reasons why people have made the decision to leave the church. My hope is that people can learn from each other rather than stereotyping either those who leave or those who stay–even though it is so easy to do.
Linda, I would have asked the questions like this:
1. If you regularly participate in a grace defying, guilt intensifying, top down manipulative system—and enjoy it—why aren’t you inviting more people to participate with you?
2. If you’ve never experienced solidarity with many other miserable people, then are you interested in attending with a friend?
3. If you have found grace, fellowship with God, and loving relationships outside of the system, will you return to slavery?
David, I have to admit that I laughed at these. :)
Overall, I would say that church is a life we invite people to share, not a meeting to attend. This may also include sharing in meetings, but that is not the defining context of our relationship with the church.
The really cool thing about the last organized church I fully participated in was that it really got that point: church is a life we invite people to share. …but then we created a system to ensure that everyone would get that point and monitored their performance within that system, including attendance. It’s really embarrassing when I look back. We invited people to share life and then took attendance. We really meddled in people’s lives.
Somehow church has become about the rock concert, MBA board, theater, university, marketing strategy getting those butts in seats and cash in the basket rather then Jesus. The building has replaced the body. The structure has replaced the loaf and the cup. entertainment and education have replaced service and acts of love. The accountant deacon replaced the taking care of the widow and orphan deacon (or elder or whatever they are called). The 5 fold ministry is a bunch of old white dudes in suits holding conferences and proclaiming mandates from God. Caring for the poor has become about feeling good on your vacation rather then a vocation. Capitalism has replaced community. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. has become a bible study not a reality.
Yet I am not going to change it by leaving, I’m going to change it by being the squeaky wheel.
Metler,
I think it is important to have people in the church (leaders and congregants) who have a vision for what the church could be and the willingness to say, “we can be different than this.”
exactly. Last time I checked it is a Kingdom.
Beware. You are embarking on the dangerous ground of prophetic ministry. We all know what happens to prophets. Good luck.
It seems to me that if there is not a fundamental change in the nature of the institutional church as many know it, those who used to go to church aren’t going to be interested in returning. Amen to what Linda said. We need servant leaders “who have a vision for what the church could be and the willingness to say, ‘we can be different than this.’”
because the church (legacy or the building type churches, not the “church” of christ) are failing at being the body of christ. when people miss a week, fine, when they miss a second time, where are the phone calls, the visits of concern. why doenst the person(s) that sit next to them leave the 99 and look for the one?
this is an important issue. i do street ministry and some of those who have stopped going to the buildings would rather hang out with us in the street.
this is an important complicated topic.
cheesy vids are not going to do anything except jump attendance for a week or two giving those involved a sense of satisfaction enabling them to say “look what we did”
humbly
Brother Frankie
“They know where I live. They know how to get in touch with me. Why aren’t they tracking me down to tell me that they miss me in person?”
that is a great question BTW
I’m afraid it’s just another waste of money!
How about every church inviting in a devout Buddhist or Hindu to explain why their faiths seem to hold folk.
Of course, no chance of that happening as they are perceived as the enemies of Christ on the side of the big S.
ha .. the big S.. .. you said the big S lol
Yawn. I’m definitely sleeping in this week! Seriously, this is sad. I would never invite anyone to “go to church”. However, for those who choose to go, that’s fine as well. To each his own. I just don’t resonate with the idea that if you miss the Sunday a.m. show you are really missing anything of any consequence.
I just can’t think of anything positive to say about this “strategy”. Maybe it’ll make someone feel like they’ve “done their duty”? Maybe it represents an investment in some kind of “church economic stimulus”?
T
i think the majority of positive responses for any such invite to attend church is simply out of courtesy to the one doing the invitation. usually this is acceptable during the BIG holidays like Christmas or Easter. but for a recruitment strategy dreamed up as a Back-to-Church-Sunday marketing ploy, that to me would be the death-nell of said relationship. to go to church only to discover the theme that Sunday was, well, i was only considered a project & potential pew-warmer would cool any relational connection i had with the one doing the inviting…
Great post here Linda.
I think we run into two extremes in our approach to… “re-churching” folks. Some just want people to get back in church without dealing with the problems and others want to stay out of church without dealing with the problems. The trouble is that there’s a lot of pain and difficulty in addressing those problems.
I’m attending a 501c3 church for the first time in 7 years and I’m already feeling the tension… struggling with their strategies and vision stuff. I hope I can be a positive influence on the inside, but we’ll see if it blows up in my face… All the same, we need Christian community. This is just the way I’m trying to find it right now. I may very well end up seeking that outside of a traditional church again.
Hmmm? National Back to Church Sunday?
Outside of “Turning my Back” on today’s Institutional church,
Which part of “The Corrupt Religious System” would they like me to go back to?
Lets see… We have the “Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.” :-(
How are they doing as a witness for Christ? Who are they ordaining?
Seems same sex marriage for their clergy is okay now. Tsk. Tsk.
Seems they are splitting again. Some aren’t happy with elder/leaders.
We have the “Episcopal Church of America.” :-(
How are they doing as a witness for Christ? Who are they ordaining?
Seems same sex marriage for their clergy and Bishops, is okay. Tsk. Tsk.
Seems they are splitting again. Some aren’t happy with elder/leaders.
We have the “Catholic Church of Rome.” :-(
How are they doing as a witness for Christ? Who are they ordaining?
Seems their priests/elders/overseers have been getting caught. ooops.
Some aren’t happy with the elder/leaders, popes and priests. My… My…
Jimmy Baker, Jimmy Swagert, John Piper, Francis Chan, Ted Haggard.
Hmmm? So many wonderful examples of “Church” “Leadership.”
Decisions… Decisions…
Let’s see…. We have
The Traditional Church,
The Institutional Church,
The Religious System Church,
The Steeple $ Corporation Church,
The 501c3, non profit, tax deductible,
Religious $ Corporation Church,
The Brick and Mortar Church,
The Pastor Led Church,
The Multiple Elder Led Church,
The Congregational Led Church,
The Pope Led Church,
The Bishop Led Church,
The Chief Executive Apostle Led Church,
There really is a Chief Executive Apostle
No Kidding. Saw it with my own eyes.
The Fluid Church,
The Solid Church,
The House Church,
The Simple Church,
The Organic Church,
The Small Group Church,
The Institutional Church,
Oh, I said that one already.
The Denominational Church,
The Non-Denominational Church,
The Inter – Denominational Church,
The Intra – Denominational Church,
The Underground Church,
The Full Gospel Church,
The Mega Church,
The Baptist Church,
The Lutheran Church,
The Evangelical Church,
The Charis maniacle ism Church,
The Pente it’s going to cost you a Lot ism Church,
And, none of them are working very well. Oy Vey!!! :-(
Wikapedia says there are 38,000 denominations. Oy Vey!!!
Even if they overstated by 90%, that’s still 3,800 denominations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
All 3,800 denominations, started by “Local Church” “Pastor/Leaders.”
Who were not happy with other “Local Church” “Pastor/Leaders.”
How does that sound to you; as a witness for Christ? 3,800. Wow!
That gives the world, and me, a lot of confidence in what being
connected to a “Local Church ” is really worth. My… My… Tsk… Tsk…
“Chaos” anyone?
Seems that’s what “The Institutional Church” has produced. “Chaos.”
Nope – don’t think there is much benefit for me, or God, with
National Back to Church Sunday.
I’ve returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of my soul. :-)
I have a wonderful Shepherd/Leader.
His name is {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
I have decided to follow Jesus – no turning back, no turning back.
I’ve stopped going to church some months ago, and I don’t regret my decision. Even now as I’m going through some stuff in my life, I’m not tempted to go back. I’m reminded of the story Philip Yancey tells of the prostitute who had an abortion, who he asked: ‘Have you been to church?’ And she answers: ‘Why? They would only make me think even less of myself than I already do.’
I’m searching for the unconditional love of God, as revealed in Jesus Christ, and how that interacts in my life and in my relationships. I want to talk about that with people, about what grace is, what acceptance is, and what the promise of the Kingdom is. I do not want te hear about all the things I should do or should not do ‘to be a better christian’: pray more, give more, sin less. Be a better person, that’s what I already say to myself every day, and I can’t do it.
So far i’ve learned more about the love of God outside of the sunday morning service, than inside.
Johan
Johan
You’re on the road to Wisdom my friend. Spirit is leading you into all truth!
You are not alone – many worldwide are walking your journey.
You can read my journey via a link on my website!
Blessings
Johan
You write…
“I’ve stopped going to church some months ago, and I don’t regret my decision.”
Me too! Only, it was years ago, the early 90′s.
I left through much pain, tears and “Spiritual Abuse.”
The benefit is… The “Spiritual Abuse” drives you to Jesus. ;-)
I returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of my soul… Jesus…
Jer 50:6
My people have been lost sheep.
**Their shepherds** have caused them to go astray…
For ye were as sheep going astray;
but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
1 Pet 2:25
And today I would say it this way…
I’ve stopped supporting, (time and money) “The Corrupt Religious System” of today.
With it’s “Titles” and “Positions” of “Pastor/Reverend/Leader” NOT found in the Bible.
“Elders/overseers” who don’t meet, or come close to, the qualifications in the Bible.
Tithes and Offerings, submission and obedience to “God Ordained Authority,
and other unbiblical heavy weights placed on shoulders.
And, In the Bible, NO one ever went to church, they became “The Church.”
And, I never left the body of Christ, “The Church.”
I left the “”The Corrupt Religious System” of today to find Jesus.
If Jesus is the head of the body, (the ekklesia, the called out one’s) “The Church.”
Then you didn’t stop being “The Body of Christ,” “The Church.”
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall **hear My voice;**
and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold – One Shepherd – One Voice.
If Not Now, When?
Be blessed in your search for Truth… Jesus
What a total failure.
Whoever did that video hasn’t a clue. The evidence being in the comments above.
For years I have said publicly that the purpose of the church is just to get people to join the church!
Until the church starts to do what God called it to do, it will, especially in these cynical days, continue to shrink.
As you might guess, I left church a number of years ago. I am now free to grow in my relationship with God without the arbiter of a hierarchical leadership system to tell me where I am wrong.
I have never been closer to the Lord.
I have known the Lord for maybe 50 years. I have sampled a number of churches in that time. The one thing in common was the extent to which tradition and hidden agenda controlled the lives of the saints via the leaders. This is just as true in the plurality of elders systems as in the one man leadership churches.
I always walked the faith walk outside of the institution, in my business and family, but even there the long arm of church control extended. Either they tried to directly influence me there, or if not successful, they tried to influence my staff.
”
Why would I ever submit my spiritual walk to someone higher up the “food chain”, when the bible clearly says that it is offensive to do such a thing.
I will never ever allow another believer to exert positional authority over my head again. This is plain idolatry, the institutional church is filled with such idolatry.
privateer
I like the cut of your jib.
Be blessed
Thanks Amos.
Now to stir up a little more trouble.
The root problem is abdication and laziness in the saints, along with domination in the structures. All this is built on a foundation of false doctrines of leadership.
It is far easier to love and serve God by proxy, through the system, through the leaders, than it is learning to personally hear and do what Jesus says.
Listening to the Spirit of God whispering requires dying to self, to our intellect, to our strength, which is just a little too costly, and painful.
The solution has been as we see everywhere, create an organisation which represents us to God, and God to us.
Pay our membership dues. Attend sufficiently to be called a member.
Listen with our PHYSICAL EARS tuned to the pastor, rather than our SPIRITUAL EARS tuned to the Spirit of God, it is far easier and needs no real personal change.
Then be pleased at being a christian.
Be pleased at going to heaven when we die.
In the meantime try to be a nice person like all christians should. Learn all the church ways by heart so you will be acceptable to man and God. Become an obedient clone of the denomination.
Vote left of centre politics so that the poor are taken care of by governments.
Let mans’ organisations define what a Christian is and practice it so that people can tell you are one of THEM.
Alternatively?????
1Cor.11v3 says…..THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST………4.Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered DISHONOURS HIS HEAD. ie. dishonours Christ.
Institutional hierarchical churches teach that submitting to the established authority of the church leadership actually honours Christ. Unfortunately for them, my bible says that SUBMITTING TO ANY HIERARCHICAL SYSTEM OVER MY HEAD, DISHONOURS CHRIST.!!!!!
Yes, it is right that we should voluntarily submit ONE TO THE OTHER as brother to brother, but if I put another person, hierarchically, over my head, AS IS DONE IN ALL CHURCHES, I have displaced Christ, my true head.
Bowing to the authority of another man as my head IS AN IDOLATROUS ACT OF WORSHIP. This is because worship in the bible is not the sing along we see in church. Rather, the word “worship”, actually means TO BOW DOWN OR TO KISS THE HAND OF. This is what we do when we let a pastor rule our spiritual life, WE WORSHIP THE PASTOR/LEADER/MINISTER/VICAR. THE PASTOR IS LORD.
”
Jesus made it clear in Matt23, that we should CALL NO MAN “RABBI” (TEACHER), AND CALL NO MAN FATHER, BECAUSE WE HAVE ONLY ONE MASTER, WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
How on earth did we end up with this hierarchical system of government over ALL the saints?
Quite simple really, we choose to abdicate our personal GOD GIVEN authority to other people. WE CHOSE ANOTHER HEAD.
We believe that on being given an office or title or robe or dog collar, somehow a person miraculously ascends to a higher place in God, and from that position he can better guide our spiritual life than we can by listening to God ourselves.
Thus the priesthood of all believers is utterly destroyed by false doctrine in the church.
IT IS HIGH TIME THE SAINTS TOOK BACK PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR WALK. THE SAINTS NEED TO GROW INTO MATURITY.
If a saint cannot manage without a weekly fix from his church, or his pastor, THEN THIS PROVES THAT HIS CHURCH HAS DONE NOTHING BUT KEEP HIM INFANTILISED.
The only way to grow, is to get out there and walk it. The gospel was never meant to be exercised in church.
TODAY IS THE TIME FOR THE INFANTILISED SAINTS TO WAKE OUT OF SLEEP AND TAKE ON THE ROYAL PRIESTHOOD OF GOD.
AND ABSOLUTELY NO NO NO. -YOU DO NOT NEED TO ASK YOUR LEADERS.- IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU SHOULD, THEN PLEASE STAY WHERE YOU ARE UNTIL YOU MATURE.
We have only one head and that is Christ!
Francis
A lot of truth in what you say!
Amen, privateer. I remember the day I finally got that, about three years ago. I was reading Genesis 1 and noticed that humankind was given dominion over the other creatures. The next thing I noticed is that dominion was given jointly to male and female humanity. The third thing I noticed is that human beings were not given dominion over one another.
Wow! That realization helped me see what Jesus really meant when He said that the disciples were not to exercise power over people as the Gentiles do. Jesus declared the game of empire-building over for His people.
That is probably also why the story of the tower of Babel is included in the founding stories of the Bible. It was the first recorded instance of empire-building and power concentration in recorded history, and God was trying, even then, to limit the power of those who would enslave their brothers.
Our first parents gave away their dominion to the first creature that talked to them, and subsequent generations give up their individual freedom of choice to governments both secular and religious (often both). God calls for cooperation, but man substitues coercion and calls it cooperation.
I don’t have a comment – just want to be notified so I can keep reading. Thank you.
“82% of the unchurched are likely to go to church if invited”
Will they find freedom there? Good news for the poor? Binding for broken hearts?
Jesus doesn’t tell me to go to, nor bring people to church.
He tells me to Love God, and my neighbor.
To Disciple nations.
To heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers and cast out demons.
I seem more easily to do those things outside of church than inside it.
I know I’ve missed the show here, but these comments were interesting to read & I have a few questions.
I guess I was de-churched, and over a period of years re-churched myself because it I found it was a useful tool for self-dicipline. In other words, having arrived at my own conclusions, I find it useful for someone to regularly remind me what my conclusions are. Honestly, I would forget otherwise. It doesn’t mean that my decisions don’t have substance, but it is because they have substance that I commit to having someone continually pushing me to carry on with them. Kind of like a personal trainer. Christianity is a hard path to walk because it stands in such contradiction to the mechanisms of the world, so choosing it without being connected to a church seems to me to be like choosing to give up alcohol, and refusing to go to AA. The fact that everyone in the church is so bad at it just goes to prove that in some sense it is needed.
Well anyway, my main question is to those who were saying that the church is unbiblical. Surely, the bible sets a lot of precedent for leadership, and congregational meeting? Apart from the fact that the old testament is almost exclusively about patriachs, many of the letters of the new testament deal with the practicalities of leadership in the early church. How can you take that and say that the church should not be lead?
I mean that genuinely. I’m playing devil’s advocate here because I have felt the same way, but I’m interested in why people do think that way. The appeal to individualism is very common, and sometimes it seems to place unreasonably demands on what is nothing more than a system of organisation.
FriedJam
You write…
“I guess I was *de-churched,* and over a period of years *re-churched* myself”
“The fact that everyone **in the church** is so bad”
When you use the word “church” – Which “church” are we talking about?
1 – “The Church of God?” Where Jesus is the head of the body,
(The ekklesia, the called out one’s), The Church? :-)
2 – the church of man? Where the 501 (c) 3, non-profit,
tax $ deductible, Religious $ Corporation? Is called the church? :-(
This is where todys “leaders” do their “Kingdom Building.”
Re-read John Valade – 3 comments before you. (Good stuff John)
Seems, in the Bible, “The Church” The Ekklesia, the called out one’s,
refers to people, individual’s and an assembly, and now the house of God. ;-)
Ac 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands…
How can you, FriedJam, ever be *de-churched* if you never left the body of Christ? The Church?
Maybe you were **de-institutionalised** for a while and now you’re **re-institutionalised.**
Did Jesus shed “His Blood” for – An organization? An institution?
A building? A denomination? Or a $ Corporation?
Should “Disciples of Christ” call a $ Corporation – “The Church of God?” AAARRRGGGHHH!!! ;-)
Seems when you say “church” and I say “Church” it just ain’t the same.
Don’t know if you ever checked or not but…
In the Bible, I found…
NO one ever *Led* “A Church.”
NO one ever *joined* “A Church.”
NO one ever *went to* “A Church.”
NO one ever *Tithed* to “A Church.”
NO one ever brought their friends to “A Church.”
NO one ever applied for membership in “A Church.”
NO one ever gave silver, gold, or money, to “A Church.”
NO buildings with steeples and crosses called “A Church.”
NO – Pastors – in Pulpits – Preaching – to People – in Pews. ;-)
What is popular is not always “Truth.”
What is “Truth” is not always popular.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall **hear My voice;**
and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold – One Shepherd – One Voice – {{{{{ Jesus }}}}}
Be blessed in your search for Truth… Jesus.
I am de-churched and returned. If a friend invited me to church I would go because I want to see my friends believing in something rather than believing in nothing. The issues for which I left are still there in the church I left but not in the one that i went to. Stop whining and find a new church. There are a lot of fish in the sea.
Dear Christian bitch, you have just equated going to church as “believing in something” as opposed to “believing in nothing”.
I cannot see how you make this connection. Going to church has never particularly been evidence of a true faith in the things that count. Many churches are filled with nominal believers, -the “…….honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me…..” sort.
I for one equate carrying out my faith within church as a good way of avoiding what I am really supposed to believe in. To me, and perhaps to many commenters above, it equates with believing in nothing worthwhile, so I avoid it like the plague. For many, their real faith is just in the church system, the pastor, the hierarchy etc. They describe this activity as believing in Christ but the real evidence of an active personal provable faith in Christ is scanty to say the least.
For you call the multitude of protests on this comment list as whining sadly illustrates how little you understand what has been said. The simple fact is that what we call church has little connection with what the bible calls church. It is a fraud almost everywhere you look. Therefore I personally will not be looking along the street for another to attend. I ceased to have faith in the church a long time ago.
:^/ …… <
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Francis – Nice to know your still saillen along