What Joel foretold (Joel 2:28-32), Peter declared was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (prox AD 33), but the FOCUS of both Joel & Peter was not upon the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but rather upon the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for “those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Joel 2:32 & Acts 2:21). That was the compelling question at the end of Peter’s sermon, “WHAT shall we do!” (Acts 2:37).

Peter declared the method that Paul also taught to be accurate, Rom 6:1-3. The indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom 8:9-11) received at baptism (Acts 2:38) is what raises us on the last day, not the baptismal measure of the Holy Spirit which was given to the Apostles (Acts 1:5 cf 2:15 – men), which still required the water for immersion to Cornelius, Acts 10:47-48 who had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit “just as we did at the beginning,” Peter said, but without the indwelling Holy Spirit until they were baptized. Those baptized on Pentecost received the indwelling Holy Spirit of Rom 8:9-11, not the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Acts 2:1. Finally, Paul baptized the twelve brothers he found at Ephesus because John’s baptism was only FOR (eis unto) remission of sins and not for/unto the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Cf Romans 8:9-11 to: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom%208:9-11,mark%201:4,%20Luke%203:3,%2024:47,%20Acts%2013:24,%2019:1-5;&version=49;

robby,
You are most welcome, and my husband said to be sure to let you know how much he appreciates what you have written in the book.

steve,
Actually it was quite annoying to read repeatedly that I am apparently a very predictable post-charismatic.

Yes, exactly!

My eldest daughter (when she was still little) once rode home in our car in silence from church, and then all of a sudden we heard her sweet little query from the back seat:

“Mommy & Daddy, why did the speaker this morning want God to make us more annoying?”

More prophetic than she realized, methinks.

My favourite line had to be “The book was annoyingly accurate in its descriptions of the things that post-charismatics experience and their responses.” Maybe that’s my “anointing”?

Again, my gratitude for your friendship and support.

As a recovering charismatic who strangely still believes in a genuine prophetic gift I couldn’t agree more.The principalities and powers that Charismatics seem so keen on are actually the empires both religious political and religious that try and control human society.The ‘dominion’ theology of many Charismatics is just playing the same Empire game with King Jesus in control.The Prophets and Apostles often see themselves as those who are courtiers to such a King.It’s 180 degrees contrary to the Kingdom of the Suffering Servant Yeshua who warned about the dangers of lording it over people,religious or otherwise.Can I recommend a great book to all post-charismatics on this blog.It’s Rene Girard’s ‘I saw Satan Fall Like Lightning’ which exposes the whole mimetic contagion that Charismatic Latter Rain theology follows.You will not regret buyiny this book.

Charlie

Charlie mentioned charismatic empire, and I just received an email from someone. It was a “word” from a well-known NAR “prophet” that was deeply disturbing.

This concept that God wants to use institutions of power to bring about His purposes (whether its power structures in institutional churches or power in political institutions) seems contrary to the cross.

It seems that charismatic culture is confused about the upside-down nature of the cross and what Jesus taught. Charismatic culture seems very enamored with empire. And I see little difference between this and historical Catholicism (within the Holy Roman Empire). Is there anything in scripture or in the teaching of Jesus that implies God uses institutionalized power (and therefore, political power – whether in church or in the secular realms) to bring about His purposes? It seems so contrary to Jesus’ teaching, I don’t know how I missed this before! (I was raised Charismatic, so I guess that’s how I missed it). But it seems so clear now…

jonathan,
I prefer the terms “spirit-empowered or spirit-led” to “charismatic.” I believe quite strongly that neither should be defined by traditional charismatic boundaries and markers, but rather by fruit and practice.

I see within the emerging/missional movement a new expression of spirit-empowered living that can and should challenge traditional charismatics, their mentalities, and their practices. This is an area of thought that I would like to give more consideration. Thanks for triggering my imagination.

Mark,
I am advance reading another post-charismatic type book to be released in December. Start saving up because you will want this one too.

dan,
LOL, actually, I should probably have a reverse paypal for all the great stuff that people share here.

charlie,
Someone showed me Sharon’s word last week. From what I have observed, she is quite sincere and highly accurate and specific in many of her prophesies.

BroM,
It is a little amusing to see the entry under Robin McAlpine. On Friday, when I checked they had it listed as in stock. I see that has changed, and I wouldn’t suggest waiting in the hope that they will stock it.

As you said, it would probably be quicker through amazon.ca, or a private seller if you still want to order on amazon.com. I think mine took less than 2 weeks and it was under $20 including shipping.

I might put in an order directly from amazon.com just to see what happens with it. I could use a couple of extra copies if they actually send them.