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	<title>Comments on: Apostolic Bullshit II</title>
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	<description>...on earth as it is in heaven</description>
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		<title>By: Kingdom Leadership After Lakeland Part 2-Considering Various Sources … &#171; futuristguy</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-7156</link>
		<dc:creator>Kingdom Leadership After Lakeland Part 2-Considering Various Sources … &#171; futuristguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] 15 - Kingdom Grace. Apostolic Bullshit II. The relationship between contemporary apostolic concepts of covering, alignment, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 15 &#8211; Kingdom Grace. Apostolic Bullshit II. The relationship between contemporary apostolic concepts of covering, alignment, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ways of Resistance &#124; Lord, Have Mercy (or, life without the charismatic celebrity!)</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6837</link>
		<dc:creator>Ways of Resistance &#124; Lord, Have Mercy (or, life without the charismatic celebrity!)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6837</guid>
		<description>[...] Apostolic Bullshit II [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Apostolic Bullshit II [...]</p>
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		<title>By: grace</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6820</link>
		<dc:creator>grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6820</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;mark&lt;/b&gt;,
Sadly, these men believe their authority will be the source of Todd&#039;s restoration.  I would much prefer to hear the language of repentance, healing, deliverance, and restoration (to wholeness, not to public ministry).

&lt;b&gt;tom&lt;/b&gt;,
Yes, just another man-made authority structure.  
More about that in Part III.

&lt;b&gt;brad&lt;/b&gt;,
That appears to be an all-too-common malady.

Hi &lt;b&gt;dan&lt;/b&gt;,
I recognize you from your blog.  I&#039;m afraid that I am overly familiar with this leadership style.

&lt;b&gt;sarah&lt;/b&gt;,
One of the flaws with these alignments is that they are more political than relational and authoritarian rather than mutually submissive.

&lt;b&gt;mary&lt;/b&gt;,
I don&#039;t get it either, and so little talk of repentance or taking responsibility for anyone&#039;s involvement in creating this charade.

&lt;b&gt;jerry&lt;/b&gt;,
So true.  This style of &quot;covering&quot; teaching does permeate charismatic churches.  I have not seen any indication of brokenness (yet) from the many people involved in this - Todd, GodTV, the apostles, or the other ministries that aligned themselves with this.  I expect damage control and business as usual.  However, I also hope that perhaps this is the beginning of a major change of heart among charismatics concerning revival and celebrity ministers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>mark</b>,<br />
Sadly, these men believe their authority will be the source of Todd&#8217;s restoration.  I would much prefer to hear the language of repentance, healing, deliverance, and restoration (to wholeness, not to public ministry).</p>
<p><b>tom</b>,<br />
Yes, just another man-made authority structure.<br />
More about that in Part III.</p>
<p><b>brad</b>,<br />
That appears to be an all-too-common malady.</p>
<p>Hi <b>dan</b>,<br />
I recognize you from your blog.  I&#8217;m afraid that I am overly familiar with this leadership style.</p>
<p><b>sarah</b>,<br />
One of the flaws with these alignments is that they are more political than relational and authoritarian rather than mutually submissive.</p>
<p><b>mary</b>,<br />
I don&#8217;t get it either, and so little talk of repentance or taking responsibility for anyone&#8217;s involvement in creating this charade.</p>
<p><b>jerry</b>,<br />
So true.  This style of &#8220;covering&#8221; teaching does permeate charismatic churches.  I have not seen any indication of brokenness (yet) from the many people involved in this &#8211; Todd, GodTV, the apostles, or the other ministries that aligned themselves with this.  I expect damage control and business as usual.  However, I also hope that perhaps this is the beginning of a major change of heart among charismatics concerning revival and celebrity ministers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6817</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6817</guid>
		<description>Hey this authority, abuse, control stuff is huge in the Charismatic movement.   It&#039;s not just small pockets - it&#039;s permeated the whole structure.   John Bevere&#039;s &quot;Under Cover&quot; is very popular.   Probably the most damaging false doctrine in the last 2000 years. 

&quot;Under Cover&quot; is really &quot;Under a Wet Blanket&quot; - it&#039;ll put out a fire quicker than CO2.  
 
The question in my mind all along was - Is Bentley going to become the Charismatic poster boy - the way Wimber did?     When they come to make you the king - look out!    I guess circumstances have changed all of that - I wasn&#039;t sure Todd could say no to the kingy thingy. 

My prediction - Todd will snub the &quot;apostolic authority&quot; - which seemingly right now is being &quot;Uncovered&quot; - they (the apostolic authority) will get a huge backlash from their recent indescent exposure - and 

Todd&#039;ll remove himself off stage for a few weeks - and then he&#039;ll go back to the streets where he was before all of this happened.   

Oh - yeah - and he and his wife will have a wonderful reunion and work out their problems.  

Oh yeah - and we&#039;ll be able to take all of this in next season in the reruns of Days of Our Wives - the new soap about Christian ministries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey this authority, abuse, control stuff is huge in the Charismatic movement.   It&#8217;s not just small pockets &#8211; it&#8217;s permeated the whole structure.   John Bevere&#8217;s &#8220;Under Cover&#8221; is very popular.   Probably the most damaging false doctrine in the last 2000 years. </p>
<p>&#8220;Under Cover&#8221; is really &#8220;Under a Wet Blanket&#8221; &#8211; it&#8217;ll put out a fire quicker than CO2.  </p>
<p>The question in my mind all along was &#8211; Is Bentley going to become the Charismatic poster boy &#8211; the way Wimber did?     When they come to make you the king &#8211; look out!    I guess circumstances have changed all of that &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t sure Todd could say no to the kingy thingy. </p>
<p>My prediction &#8211; Todd will snub the &#8220;apostolic authority&#8221; &#8211; which seemingly right now is being &#8220;Uncovered&#8221; &#8211; they (the apostolic authority) will get a huge backlash from their recent indescent exposure &#8211; and </p>
<p>Todd&#8217;ll remove himself off stage for a few weeks &#8211; and then he&#8217;ll go back to the streets where he was before all of this happened.   </p>
<p>Oh &#8211; yeah &#8211; and he and his wife will have a wonderful reunion and work out their problems.  </p>
<p>Oh yeah &#8211; and we&#8217;ll be able to take all of this in next season in the reruns of Days of Our Wives &#8211; the new soap about Christian ministries.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6814</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6814</guid>
		<description>One thing that I &quot;heard&quot; when I read the statement from Chuck Pierce is all of the blame for the situation and the responsibility for being &quot;qualified&quot; rest upon Todd&#039;s shoulders.

Just what does it mean to bear one another&#039;s burdens?  Will these leaders only help him if Todd comes back with his tail between his legs?  Where is the patience and kindness in the responses of these &quot;apostolic&quot; leaders?  What about believing and hoping all things?

Sigh...I just don&#039;t get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that I &#8220;heard&#8221; when I read the statement from Chuck Pierce is all of the blame for the situation and the responsibility for being &#8220;qualified&#8221; rest upon Todd&#8217;s shoulders.</p>
<p>Just what does it mean to bear one another&#8217;s burdens?  Will these leaders only help him if Todd comes back with his tail between his legs?  Where is the patience and kindness in the responses of these &#8220;apostolic&#8221; leaders?  What about believing and hoping all things?</p>
<p>Sigh&#8230;I just don&#8217;t get it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6813</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6813</guid>
		<description>What I find incredulous is the implication that there would not have been any sin issues had Todd been rightly &quot;aligned&quot; under these &quot;apostles&quot;. As if  abdicating, oops, I mean submitting to a &quot;covering&quot; would magically protect him from temptation and sin? Wasn&#039;t he &quot;aligned&quot; with them already prior  to the fallout? Maybe I&#039;m missing something...

Yes, at the heart of all of it is empire-building. I have a beautiful prophetic British friend who was in a position of relationship to speak into this issue of empire to the Pierce clan. But, it seems her voice went unheard. Too bad. Will keep praying... :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find incredulous is the implication that there would not have been any sin issues had Todd been rightly &#8220;aligned&#8221; under these &#8220;apostles&#8221;. As if  abdicating, oops, I mean submitting to a &#8220;covering&#8221; would magically protect him from temptation and sin? Wasn&#8217;t he &#8220;aligned&#8221; with them already prior  to the fallout? Maybe I&#8217;m missing something&#8230;</p>
<p>Yes, at the heart of all of it is empire-building. I have a beautiful prophetic British friend who was in a position of relationship to speak into this issue of empire to the Pierce clan. But, it seems her voice went unheard. Too bad. Will keep praying&#8230; <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dan Brennan</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6811</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Brennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6811</guid>
		<description>First-time commenter--good synthesis of a leadership style that operates out of fear and order in the name of either charisma or just plain--top down authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First-time commenter&#8211;good synthesis of a leadership style that operates out of fear and order in the name of either charisma or just plain&#8211;top down authority.</p>
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		<title>By: brad</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6810</link>
		<dc:creator>brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6810</guid>
		<description>hi grace - thanks for the input. well stated - a shot of espresso on The Critical Issues. thanks ... 

it&#039;s possible several &quot;situations&quot; i&#039;m helping other people work through may end up at a higher level of confrontation that bring in denominational issues, where their superstructures appear to have enabled illness rather than sparked health. not looking forward to that possibility, but on the other hand, i suspect these upper-level management kinds of confrontations may start happening more and more, especially when the presence of next generation leaders becomes less and less. hmmm ... could it be that things change could be sparked at a systemic level when it becomes more evident that the emperors have not clones?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi grace &#8211; thanks for the input. well stated &#8211; a shot of espresso on The Critical Issues. thanks &#8230; </p>
<p>it&#8217;s possible several &#8220;situations&#8221; i&#8217;m helping other people work through may end up at a higher level of confrontation that bring in denominational issues, where their superstructures appear to have enabled illness rather than sparked health. not looking forward to that possibility, but on the other hand, i suspect these upper-level management kinds of confrontations may start happening more and more, especially when the presence of next generation leaders becomes less and less. hmmm &#8230; could it be that things change could be sparked at a systemic level when it becomes more evident that the emperors have not clones?</p>
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		<title>By: volkmar1108</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6808</link>
		<dc:creator>volkmar1108</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 02:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6808</guid>
		<description>Just an observation...maybe others can add perspective;

Doesn&#039;t it appear obvious that these &quot;Apostolic&quot; charismatic ejits have reproduced a dumbed-down version of what the RC&#039;s and EO have already &quot;perfected&quot;?  Dang, if I wanted &quot;covering&quot; I&#039;d go for chrismation in EO...and they have the history to boot!


Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just an observation&#8230;maybe others can add perspective;</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t it appear obvious that these &#8220;Apostolic&#8221; charismatic ejits have reproduced a dumbed-down version of what the RC&#8217;s and EO have already &#8220;perfected&#8221;?  Dang, if I wanted &#8220;covering&#8221; I&#8217;d go for chrismation in EO&#8230;and they have the history to boot!</p>
<p>Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Mark R</title>
		<link>http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/apostolic-bullshit-ii/#comment-6807</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 01:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/?p=862#comment-6807</guid>
		<description>&quot;Ministry should not be his goal&quot; - ha!!! Ministry is inate - the question is - is his ministry good, bad or ineffective, we can not choose not to minister, those of us in Christ can not help but minister.

What does the restoration of covenant alignments mean?

Another challenging post and political spin at it&#039;s finest in &quot;The Days Of Lakeland.&quot;  I prefer the discipline of God rather than that of man,  it&#039;s pretty hard to deal with sin when the voice of God is being compromised with the voice of man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ministry should not be his goal&#8221; &#8211; ha!!! Ministry is inate &#8211; the question is &#8211; is his ministry good, bad or ineffective, we can not choose not to minister, those of us in Christ can not help but minister.</p>
<p>What does the restoration of covenant alignments mean?</p>
<p>Another challenging post and political spin at it&#8217;s finest in &#8220;The Days Of Lakeland.&#8221;  I prefer the discipline of God rather than that of man,  it&#8217;s pretty hard to deal with sin when the voice of God is being compromised with the voice of man.</p>
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