None of us should be “ready to quit saying that there is a vision for the church that is greater than the institutional models we have accepted and embraced” in the past.

Just as you are (and the so many others are who interact here at your blog) , I am constantly in a process of distinguishing the essence of our relationship to Jesus and each other from the cultural containments which often make the claim of being “essential”.

I’m convinced that church (Believers who relate/commit one to the other) has often (especially in our country) been industrialized and has thus lost/obscured the essence (DNA) — which is, to quote Paul, “Christ in me” and thus Christ in you and me.

If we will dedicate ourselves to living out of that essence which has been put into us and taking the time and trouble to figure out together what that looks like, then we will, through the work of the Spirit, be a “picture window ” onto the world through which the world will witness the manifold wisdom of God.

That’s being “on mission”, I would think.

We start with what we’ve been given, and as Traveler has indicated on a more recent comment thread, we live out of the assurance of God’s goodness and grace and not out of fear of making mistakes. God takes our mistakes and turns them to “light” (Eph. 5:13,; ASV, KJV, Youngs Literal).

So, let’s continue to hack away at the overgrowth…you have a strong arm, Grace.

T

AMEN!

As is “normal”…I’m coming to this discussion a day late and a Pound short ;o)

Some one wrote something to the effect (Wolfgang Simson, maybe?);

When the Jews received the Gospel they saw it as the New Law. When the Greeks got the Gospel they made it into a philosophy and when the Europeans came to the Gospel they made it into a culture. Americans have made the Gospel into a business.

Kimberly’s measuring church success by “the ABC” method is amusing yet true. Another method is “BBB”…Buildings, Bodies, Bucks.

JulieT’s quote from Brennan Manning is exactly right. Has anyone here ever read anything that Manning wrote that wasn’t right on? Manning, in Abba’s Child quoted Thomas Merton saying;

“If I make anything out of the fact that I am Thomas Merton, I am dead. And if you make anything out of the fact that you are in charge of the pig barn, you are dead.” Merton’s solution? “Quit keeping score altogether and surrender yourself with all your sinfulness to God who sees neither the score nor the scorekeeper but only his child redeemed by Christ.”

Grace, quoting your re-post;

I am so disillusioned with the end results of the organizational and programmatic aspects of church that I cannot seem to see beyond that.

Is it just the “end results” that are bothersome, or is it the methodology/mind-set AND the subsequent “results” ?

Maybe I’m too simplistic, but isn’t it time we just walk away from the knee-deep hupla and devote our time, gifts, energy, material blessings, etc. to just seeking and being the little clots of the Kingdom that are known by the Lord and who know each other face to face?

Forget the Franchises. Perhaps God is using McChurch to pull some folks off the sidewalk, but it seems to me that McChristianity leaves growing people un-full, thus they begin looking for the real Feast. (did I get enough goofy metaphors into that last run-on sentence?) We don’t need to “produce church”, rather, let’s be participants in what Jesus has already “produced” of and in Himself.

Let’s rest from “keeping score.”

Tom

jerry,
I have noticed that the effect of a mega-church in a community is similar to the effect of a walmart on small, locally-owned businesses. When you have the ability to provide one-stop-shopping, better service, quality, and prices, it is inevitable that the little guy won’t be able to compete.

I’m really surprised Disney doesn’t get in the church business – they are very good at everything the Mega-church does – they just need to find a prince valiant (or a little mermaid) that can preach.