Ironically, however, I had the exact same thought when I saw it the first time, Grace! hehe

When I’m coaching the vocal students I accompany, this subject of German vowel pronunciation often comes up (especially with common German words like “die” that look like English words, yet get the other vowel pronounced…i.e., it’s pronounced “dee” instead of our English “die”). I usually try to remind them, in a lousy imitation of a German accent:

Ven two vowels go a-valking, ze SECOND one does ze talking

I believe the correct spelling is neener, neener.

(neiner, neiner would be the German spelling)

It is “a long and winding road” — teaching them to love each other and forgive each other and look out for what is best for each other rather than “marking their territory” and defending it from all encroachment.

When I can get them to see that they are all doing the same things to each other, I will have made a major breakthrough … may that day arrive sooner than later, please Lord!

In all cases, however, when I have chosen to get sucked into “meting out justice” rather than requiring them to each consider their part in the problem, it turns into a tangle of power and “neiner, neiner” (however you spell that!) and it is aweful.

Sigh…the perils of parenting parallel this topic! Authority rests with the parent, yes. But power must be wielded relationally FOR — fostering maturity and responsibility with loving influence, rather than positionally OVER — fostering dependence and immaturity from controlling coercion.

With God’s continued grace, we will get there step by step. I will pray for you and your circumstance, Jamie….

Peace,
Jamie

As far as institutional structure, I think that people serve better without the structure of organizational positions which tend to create a pecking order. Yes, it’s still about relationships, but they sometimes become distorted by organizational roles.

chris,
We’ve had some great discussions thanks to the people who share their thoughts here.

For some reason the church didn’t learn to do it differently, but basically adopted the leadership and organizational structures of the world.

I think the change begins with teaching. It is still most common that people believe that traditional hierarchical structures are biblical. It’s encouraging to hear about those who want reform, but it seems we have a long ways to go.

ken,
I believe that many of the individuals involved in institutions want to serve the kingdom. However, as a whole, organizations tend to be extremely self serving and territorial.

david,
I wondered if anyone would mention the picture. It was for my husband. When he observes the posturing and politicking that sometimes occurs in church situations, he says, “the dogs are marking the trees.” When you know some of the things that go on behind the scenes, it is pretty easy to recognize territorial behaviors.

7catz,
Exactly! And the social hierarchies created by the organizational structure contribute to political behavior which often results in toxic relationships.

jerry,
Very true. An openness to questions and dialog is an important trait of a healthy system.

steve,
Alan Knox did a couple of great posts about the organization. His emphasis was that the people should always be the focus, not the organization, but the tendency is usually to prioritize the organization at the expense of relationships. Ideally organizations would serve the body rather than the other way around.

Is it possible to have a church organization without the toxicity and social maneuvering? You would think so, but it seems to be more rare than common. Power, influence, and position don’t seem to bring out the best in human nature.

Sarah,
I agree that those things are inherent to institutionalism. It is interesting how, as members of the Church, we strongly identify ourselves organizationally rather than organically.

Bryan,
Good thoughts. I think because we have been passively led, we are not very well trained in mutual submission. That would be a good first step toward living in a way that we don’t lord over one another.

Mark,
It would be naive to think that we wouldn’t have to deal with the negative aspects of our human nature. Instead of representing an alternative way of relating to one another, our models have contributed to politics and power.

Tom,
Thanks for the link. Like Michael, I enjoyed the thoughts about hierarchy and institution that were presented in The Shack.

Nathan,
It is always good to see so many different perspectives and nuances to an issue.

jerry,
No problem. I have to figure out how to do a pingback one of these days.

I liked the point in your post that an open presentation of truth is the best solution to dealing with situations of false teaching, error, and conflict.

One of the things from your earlier comment that I have been thinking about is that I have probably used the word power too generally. Power itself isn’t bad. The things I have trouble with in institutional situations are the misuse of power, manipulation, and striving for power.

Sometimes the word authority would be more specific and accurate. In that case, the question would be whether we are dealing with legitimate or false authority.

I was thinking about the different kinds of power involved in relationships, organizations, and conflict. There is positional power of course, but there is also the power of tradition, the power of the majority, the power of aggressiveness, the power of influence – both good and bad, the power of manipulation. Looking behind the scenes, one can usually reveal what powers are driving the conflict.

On the other hand, in reconciliation, we have the power of forgiveness, the power of love, the power of humility, gentleness, kindness, the power of truth, and the power of openness and inclusion. There is greater potential for healing when everyone involved is included in the reconciliation process.

I don’t present any of this as a solution, but I wanted to clarify that I wasn’t setting up a thesis that all power is always bad. We are commanded not to “rule over” one another, that is clear. However, I believe we will always find ourselves in situations of choosing how we will use our power.

“May the force be with you.”

Peace,
Jamie

This is my scriptural support to Jamie for why personally I feel I cannot use a position of authority (in the church) to trump someone.