http://dallascult.com/index.php?page_id=266

Thanks for sharing your journey with us.

Wendy J. Duncan
Author: I Can’t Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult

david,
Great thoughts. I could relate to your answers to all of the questions. God knows that I’m not about to get over myself anytime soon and whatever the situation, it ultimately is all about me.

As for jumping, I am most likely to be the one hanging back saying, “No, don’t jump!”

I don’t know where the whole church thing is headed. My husband says we’re “going rogue”, whatever the heck that means. We’ve had to give each other quite a bit of grace in this season of transition.

tom,
Awesomely amazing was a bit tongue-in-cheek. In reality, for now, I am no longer looking for “it”, but rather, at least for a season, learning to discern the church around me whether it is structured or unstructured.

traveller,
Good thoughts. We probably all have room to grow in our ability to trust the leadership of the Spirit within our gatherings.

jerry,
Great examples of appreciating the gifts of each person that God brings together. There is dynamic power available when people are released into their unique gifting. I loved the phrase and visual about God pitching underhanded to you. I imagine Him doing that for me quite often.

joe,
I hope you haven’t felt beat up on this thread. As you know from reading Frank’s book and others, the role of pastor and the organizational structure is being deconstructed in many circles.

As I said earlier, I think that we are in a time of transition. There will continue to be church organizations and within that the role of pastor or leader. I hope as many of those positions as possible are filled with people who have a vision for empowering, equipping, and releasing people.

Ok everyone, on the count of three, one, two,….

David,

LOL! Do you remember Mel Gibson in Road Warrior where that goofy aviator guy was driving the large truck and and was impalled through the leg when someone chucked a spear through the door? And Gibson says, “Ok, on three…One…THREE!!” And the friend says, “OUCH!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO TWO???”

Tom

Jerry and Traveller understood to the “T” what I said earlier to you.

You actually reiterated the same mindset in your response to inyouhouse;

“We have had some fun disagreements at our tables, and I have Elders in the church who disagree with some of what I say… “

“*I have* Elders…who disagree with *some* of what I say…”

You have Elders?? Who owns those Elders? And, what if they totally disagree with some of what you say…who then “carries the day”, so to speak?

Brother, you are operating out of a Sola Pastora institutional perspective rather than thinking/functioning in charismatic terms which is the reality of the Spirit of God empowering and enabling His people to fulfill corporately (and individually) His purposes.

Traveller and Jerry both express my concern about what you appear to express about “vision” and “the DNA” of the church;

“…the concern many have is that any single person would create the “vision” and “DNA” and form it in the ekklesia.”

“…we view “vision” as a corporate thing. Kind of like putting the pieces together with the person next to you. “Vision” grows as others have input into it. My own “vision” is worth very little to me (or anyone) by itself.”

Joe M., I’m criticizing an idea and an attitude–I am not judging your motives and, as I wrote earlier, I think you have a great love for the Lord and His people.

Tom

Right now in my life – I am surrounded by evangelists – I am a musician. We are marrying praise and worship and evangelism because that’s what our group is – evangelists and praise and worshippers. Everyone there loves to praise. Kind of like Reese’s peanut butter cups. It’s been awesome – and none of us would have done that on our own. It’s real doable – because our group is small. (though we’ve hosted one event that had over 700 people in it). And yes – theologically – I’ve been told it’s not right at all – - and that we all need to be in church – and under authority – and that the harvest we’re bringing in is rotting – and that we’re forsaking the assembly of the saints, and all of that ….. Reality is – we have two pieces right now – and we put them together – now that’s assembling the saints. I pray we’ll be able to put together more pieces – cause not everyone is a praise and worship leader or intercessor.

I’m not an evangelist at all – but I had one of these sisters bring in 3 (three) 17 year-olds and say – Jerry these three want you to lead them to Christ and they want to be baptised. How awesome is that? What do you think that did for my faith? God was pitching underhanded to me.

I went out with another sister – and saw this gang banger throw down his baseball bat – and pray to receive Christ. That kid had on a pair of shorts – pulled down 6 inches below his naval – and a pair of tennis shoes – and a baseball bat in case someone messed with him. He threw that baseball bat down on the ground and prayed. Wow…. I would have never experienced that – had I not honored those people around me who thought evangelism is the most absolute necessary and needed thing in the world.

I personally think that praise and worship and prayer is the absolute most needed thing in the world – and you know what – they honored me in that – and what I believed too.

The concern about your vision is that it looks eerily like sola pastora – in other words – you lay out the vision – and everybody is just suppose to fit inside of it. One size fits all. God calls down the vision to Moses – and Moses tells all the people what it is. You’re the “primary vision carrier” for your flock. Now – that’s the kind of “red flags” we have with statements like Tom pointed out. Maybe that’s not what it is at all – and maybe our “red flags” are not warranted.

BTW – say a quick prayer for us – we have a big outreach on Saturday. Praise and worship – and evangelism in the streets. Thanks ya’ll.

It is not that there is no organization but that organizing is by the Holy Spirit, not a human organization. Again, I have been a part of this happening when gifts are exercised instead of people organizing and directing.

Since I have actually seen this happen, I believe it is possible for there to be no “leader” among followers of Jesus, except King Jesus himself, when those who follow him actually allow the Spirit to work. I recognize this frightens most people because there is the fear of chaos or heresy or whatever. In my experience when people give up leadership and exercise their spiritual gifts instead then it is amazing what happens!

When the veil was rent in two – the Lord was saying – “Thank you Levites for all of your years of service – your job has been completed – we won’t be needing you anymore.”

He equates that with the thing that happened in Christian Tabernacle in Houston (When a lightening bolt split the pulpit in half):

http://www.evanwiggs.com/revival/history/penpulp.html

“Thank-you Mr Pulpiteer for all of your years of service – we won’t be needing you anymore!”