I am with you. No clergy. Just believers helping the world by any means necessary: 24/7.

…and institutionalizing a spiritual organism (the Body) has to be the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen.

Anyone here familiar with The Way Int’l? I had an encounter with them early in my journey. I was maybe 2-3 years on “my way” when these 2 cute girls in the apartment complex next to mine noticed me carrying a bible. Well, not only carrying a bible. Back in “the day” I wore a blue cotton shirt embroidered on the back with a resurrection scene & I wore a wooden cross hanging around my neck on a leather tie. No joking.

Anyway, they invited up to their apartment for their version of a “bible study.”

So, I went & sure enough they gathered there with a few others. Small group. The young girl that was the leader read some scripture. Asked another person to give a short homily, then directed her roommate to “speak in tongues” & yet another person to give the interpretation.

Yeah. Spooky though. I got Holy Spirit goosebumps alright, but not the positive kind…

That was the last time I went. Never saw those girls again. I’m sure I was simply a potential proselyte they would have notched onto their bibles as a recruitment trophy…

I hate it when I am just treated as a spiritual piece of meat!

So, anyone know about The Way? It took advantage of the Jesus Movement influx of young people. I don’t know what Way they are going today though…

“When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation…”

What an interesting phenomenon. One that dogs preachers or bloggers or maybe even those that have a hymn, lesson, revelation, tongue or interpretation?

Saw it in the prophetic. One upmanship cloaked in spiritual propriety. The smaller the group the more tempted to, as it was stated above, “constantly produce” with greater & greater spiritual impact…

Spiritual gifting does have a subtle effect upon its emitter that is different than say a natural talent. We can appreciate the artist & those creative types. Admire greater sports ability or mental acuity. But those pesky spiritual gifts are dispensed willy-nilly as the Spirit chooses…

But then if you are gathering each week to express such giftings the dreaded one-upmanship must be resisted. Gifting may level the playing field, but it is the wounded & disenfranchised & the needy & those seeking attention that will quickly glom onto the spiritual celebrity status that brings nods & Amens & Hallelujahs from the more popular attendees…

Takes a level of meekness to avoid that trap of impressing the saints no matter what it is that is being done “in the name of the Lord.”

And now we must address the concept of maturity level. How the giftings will be permitted to be publicly expressed & who chooses the person & how it is to be demonstrated. Seems a facilitator or leader must keep things in order to accurately pattern the way it is to be done.

I like the idea of the Holy Spirit being the one orchestrating the proceedings. But it seems He is either unwilling or prevented from causing Sister So-and-So from sharing that hymn abrasively off-tune & if allowed, in 3 movements accompanied by her own choreography…

Some brave saint must step in & put the holy kibosh on such a spontaneous anointment or the entire group will be less inclined to be so open next time.

Now it could be a long novitiate period is warranted like they did in the early church. Up to a year or even two before being ‘released’ into the regular body dynamic & invited to share giftings. Maybe the need for such a discipleship novice period something that should be considered if the desire is to allow greater participation in regular gatherings on a regular basis…

The last little while I’ve been reflecting on typical pastoral communication styles and content and have concluded that they say way too much. By communicating so much and listening so little they set themselves up for theological error and reinforce the two caste church system.

John Santic (Toward Hope) has a great recent post on the compulsion to constantly produce: “Thank you for sharing my journey. However, of late, it feels as thought the well has dried up and I am running out of things to say. One of the temptations that blogging can bring is the feeling that one needs to constantly come up with something profound and important to say. Feeling I need to always have something to say, to share, to write, has tired me out and led to misdirected desires. Who am I trying to impress?”

This same compulsion dogs preachers. We need to free them from the tyranny of constant communication and maybe there’s some freedom for ourselves in this.

have had enough hoopla, thank you very much. Enough conversation & dialogue. Enough theological theorization. I confess my skepticism. No need to hide or deny my propensity. If others claim what they are experiencing is the way it was intended from the beginning, then God bless you. I still have a ways to go before I can join in your happy testimony time…

So, onward I plod. Not that I doubt what it is you are experiencing is what you are convinced authentic. But then all those that have claimed they are on the cutting edge of God’s true expression upon their own soapboxes spouting the same assertions. Anyway, just rambling here…”

Brother, I appreciate your honesty and willingness to be vulnerable.

I’m constantly having to remind myself of what Paul said in Rom. 14; “For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.”

That is the true cutting edge.

Tom

To answer a previous question, yes, generally speaking it’s about 20 hours on average a preacher spends for a typical sermon. I’ve noticed I can “prep” for about 5 hours- and 10 tops- when it’s more of a dialogue (though if I have a feeling that it’s a topic or passage that can lead to “rabbit trails,” I try to guess where it might go and do some additional research, just so I can have some idea if it ever does go somewhere else).

sounds like a really interesting book so far, Grace, thanks for sharing. I really want to check it out after I get caught up on all the other reading I’ve been trying to do.

http://www.anewkindofminister.blogspot.com

The church is not something we build, it is simply a way of living alongside each other that makes Jesus known…” —Wayne Jacobsen, excerpt from his blog post, “How do I find a good body of believers?

Wayne was actually the associate pastor of the small church I was a member of during my early formative years of being a new believer…

To think that I was in the same church along with his brother during those years & then to find out not too many years ago how he divested himself of the ‘institutional church arrangement’ to embrace a less definite journey of emergent flavor…

I am sure he would not remember me. But then I was not an individual seeking any type of notoriety. There were some interesting people I was familiar with back then. One I recall jumped into the ‘river’ of renewal hook, line & sinker, yet left the church he started for some other vocation not at all part of this supposed next move of God…

I remember the passion of those heady years. Renewal. Toronto. Prophetic insight & the associated manifestations…

One of the attractive elements of emergent thought for me was the de-emphasis of spiritual hoopla. Yet even in this less intensive emerging trend I find the lingering uncertainty still hard to accept.

Spiritual gifting done rightly? If we have such a problem actually identifying what that should look like after 2,000 years of Corinthian precedent, is it no wonder many remain skeptical of those that say, “’There it is, out in the desert, or, Here it is, in the inner rooms?” Simply claiming it is in fact being practiced here or there not enough to convince this weary saint. But then I am assured my caution not any real hindrance to what the Holy Spirit is doing in other saints throughout the world today.

I have had enough hoopla, thank you very much. Enough conversation & dialogue. Enough theological theorization. I confess my skepticism. No need to hide or deny my propensity. If others claim what they are experiencing is the way it was intended from the beginning, then God bless you. I still have a ways to go before I can join in your happy testimony time…

So, onward I plod. Not that I doubt what it is you are experiencing is what you are convinced authentic. But then all those that have claimed they are on the cutting edge of God’s true expression upon their own soapboxes spouting the same assertions. Anyway, just rambling here…

“The concern that comes to my mind is the tremendous drain of resources required for this form of discipleship. As I understand it, a sermon typically takes a pastor an average of 20 hours for preparation time in a week. Does anyone have a greater or lesser number? If that’s the case, that’s a lot of time for a “key leader” in a community to be sequestered away.”

8 hrs. minimum. Gets better with practice. I could never recycle sermons, so it took me longer.

It’s rediculous to think that one person in the congregation has a bottomless jar of Spiritual oil.

Tom